Mtshali v Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration (J3103/98) [1999] ZALC 86; [1999] 9 BLLR 961 (LC); (1999) 20 ILJ 2400 (LC) (3 June 1999)

45 Reportability

Brief Summary

Labour Law — Condonation — Late referral of dispute — Employee claiming constructive dismissal — Original arbitration award granted in absence of employer — Employer applying for rescission of award due to improper service — Commissioner rescinding original award based on audi alteram partem principle — Employee seeking review of rescission decision — Court finding Commissioner had authority to reconsider condonation and that late referral was not justified.

IN THE LABOUR COURT OF SOUTH AFRICA
HELD AT JOHANNESBURG
CASE NUMBER:  J3103/98  
In the matter between:
THEMBA MTSHALI Applicant
and
COMMISSION FOR CONCILIATION, MEDIATION 
AND ARBITRATION  Respondents
JUDGMENT
MARCUS A J:
INTRODUCTION:
I. This   matter   has   a   complicated   history.   In   various  
forms   it   has   come   before   three   judges   of   the   Labour  
Court and has been the subject of two hearings before  
the   Commission   for   Conciliation,   Mediation   and  
Arbitration ("CCMA").

II. The   applicant,   to   whom   I   shall   refer   as   “the  
employee”,   was   formerly   employed   by   the   Greater  
Johannesburg   Transitional   Metropolitan   Council   ("the  
Council").   A dispute concerning the dismissal of the  
employee was referred to the CCMA.  On 12 October 1998,  
the   second   respondent   (“the   Commissioner”)   issued   an  
arbitration   award   in   terms   of   which   the   employee   was  
reinstated   in   his   employment   with   the   Council.     The  
dispute   giving   rise   to   this   award,   to   which   I   shall  
refer   as   “the   original   award”,   is   not   presently  
germane.   It suffices to say that the employee claims  
he was constructively dismissed.  The Council claims he  
resigned.  The dispute was only referred to the CCMA on  
10   July   1998,   some   seven   months   after   the   alleged  
dismissal.   On that date, the matter was heard in the  
absence of the Council.
  
III. In the original award the Commissioner found that  
on   the   undisputed   evidence   before   her,   the   Council  
forced   the   employee   to   resign   by   deploying   him   in   a  
department where it was known that he had experienced  
difficulties with his superiors. These difficulties had  
led   to  his   resignation  and   the  employee   was    held  to  
have been constructively dismissed.

IV. The employee applied to the Labour Court to have  
the   original   award   made   an   order   of   court.   The  
application was heard by Grogan AJ on 18 December 1998.  
The order was granted.
V. The   Council   thereafter   applied   to   have   the   order  
granted by Grogan AJ rescinded in terms of section 165  
of   the   Labour   Relations   Act   66   of   1995   (“the   Act”).  
The matter came before Revelas J who, after a careful  
analysis   of   the   facts,   concluded   that   the   order   of  
Grogan AJ had been erroneously granted in the absence  
of   the   Council   and   should   accordingly   be   rescinded.  
The order of rescission was granted on 12 March 1999. 
VI. At the arbitration hearing which took place in the  
absence of the Council, the Commissioner was at pains  
to point out that the possibility of rescission loomed  
large.     According   to   the   transcript   of   that   hearing,  
the Commissioner explained to the employee that because  
the   matter   was   being   heard   in   the   absence   of   the  
Council, it was possible that the Council may apply for  
rescission. The Commissioner emphasized this fact. She  
stated the following:
"You   need   to   be   aware,   Mr   Mtshali,   that   the  
Municipality may bring a rescission which means we may

have to meet again and hear both sides of the story."
VII. Fortified   by   the   judgment   of   Revelas   J,   the  
Council   applied   to   the   CCMA   for   rescission   of   the  
original   award.     The   matter   was   heard   by   the   same  
Commissioner on 15 March 1999.   On 18 March 1999, the  
Commissioner   rescinded   the   original   award.     She  
reasoned as follows:
"BACKGROUND:
The   case   was   initially   heard   on   the   12th   of   October  
1998.     A   default   award   was   given   as   the   respondent  
party   did   not   arrive   and   it   appeared   from   the   papers  
that they had been notified.   Condonation was granted  
in   this   award.     The   employee   party   subsequently   made  
the award an order of court.  This was set aside by the  
court   and   referred   to   the   CCMA   for   rescission   as   it  
appeared   that   there   had   been   no   proper   service.     The  
rescission application was heard on the 15th of March  
1999.     Mr   Mtshali,   the   employee,   represented   himself  
and   Mr   Van   Tonder,   the   legal   officer   of   the   Council  
represented the Greater Metropolitan Council.  
RESCISSION:
Mr Mtshali argued that he served the documents on the  
Town   Clerk   who   mislaid   them   and   he   should   not   be  
prejudiced for this.   Moreover, he argued that he did

not   know   the   correct   person   on   whom   to   serve   the  
documents as he was no longer working at the Council.  
He   stated   that   he   did   contact   various   people   to   find  
out   where   he   should   serve   the   documents   but   he   kept  
being referred to different places.  Mr Mtshali argued  
that   he   exhausted   all   relevant   channels.     He   stated  
that   he   served   the   documents   where   he   collected   his  
last payment from the Council being Diepmeadow. Mr Van  
Tonder argued that the Council's postal address is in  
Braamfontein.     He   stated   that   the   fax   and   telephone  
numbers were incorrect.   Mr Van Tonder argued that Mr  
Mtshali, who had worked for the Council for 10 years,  
knew whom to contact and neglected to choose an address  
that was not the Johannesburg Council's.  Mr Van Tonder  
argued that as the referral was deficient the award be  
rescinded   in   terms   of   section   144   of   the   Labour  
Relations Act, 65 of 1995.
RULING:
The   underlying   reason   that   the   Labour   Relations   Act,  
Form   7.11,   requests   that   the   employee   notify   the  
employer is to make sure that both parties are aware of  
a   dispute   and   the   grounds   for   such   a   dispute.     The  
principle underlying this procedure is the  audi alteram  
partem rule which means that in a dispute in order for  
there   to   be   justice   and   equity,   both   sides   must   be  
heard.  In this case the respondent was never notified

and consequently did not attend either the mediation or  
the arbitration.   Therefore both sides were not heard  
and the  audi alteram partem  rule was not fulfilled.  It  
is   apparent   from   the   argument   and   the   accompanying  
affidavits that an error in service has occurred.   In  
order   for   justice   and   equity   to   prevail   the   award  
issued on the 12th of October is rescinded in terms of  
section 144 of the Act.
POINT IN LIMINE :
The   next   issue   that   was   raised   was   condonation.  
Certain factors are taken into account when considering  
condonation.     These   are   the   degree   of   lateness,   the  
reason for the late­referral, prospects of success and  
the prejudice to the parties.  Condonation was heard on  
the affidavits and in arguments.
DEGREE OF LATENESS :
The dispute arose on the 13th of December 1997 and the  
case was referred to the CCMA  on the 10th of July  
1998.  This is a substantial delay of about five months  
and 28 days. 
REASONS FOR LATE­REFERRAL :
The employee stated that the reason why the dispute was  
so   late   is   that   he   had   handed   his   case   to   certain  
business  in Soweto  which was  posing as  the CCMA.   He  
stated that these individuals kept pushing him off by

telling   him   that   they   were   attempting   to   liaise   with  
his   employer.     Mr   Mtshali   stated   that   he   often  
approached them.  After some time had passed he went to  
the bargaining council.  They then referred him to the  
CCMA.     A   letter   was   sent   to   the   CCMA   on   the   10th   of  
July 1998 confirming that they (the bargaining council)  
had   no   jurisdiction   in   the   matter.     Mr   Van   Tonder  
argued   that   given   Mr   Mtshali's   intelligence   and  
experience   that   the   above   was   an   unreasonable  
explanation as he had knowledge of the procedures to be  
followed   as   set   down   in   the   Labour   Relations   Act.  
This,   he   argued,   could   be   shown   from   Mr   Mtshali's  
initiative to make the initial award an order of court.  
PROSPECTS OF SUCCESS :
Mr   Mtshali   stated   that   he   had   worked   for   the   Council  
since  1990.    He stated  that he  had been  assaulted in  
1990   and   that   he   was   then   transferred   to   various  
departments and Councils which resolved the issue.  Mr  
Mtshali   stated   that   with   the   deployment   of   the  
Metropolitan Councils into Substructures he was due to  
be   transferred   into   the   same   department   where   the  
initial problem occurred.  He stated that he did object  
and  when nothing  could be  done, he  resigned.    Mr Van  
Tonder  argued that  Mr Mtshali,  as he  had been  in the  
employ of the organisation for some time, was aware of  
the disciplinary structures.  He stated that he was not

aware that Mr Mtshali made use of any of the grievance  
procedures or had approached the dispute committee with  
an objection about his employment.
PREJUDICE TO THE PARTIES :
Mr Van Tonder argued that if the issue in dispute went  
back   until   1990,   it   would   be   extremely   difficult   to  
find the people involved in reconstructing events.  He  
further   stated   that   some   of   the   individuals   involved  
had left the employ of the organisation.  Further, one  
of the key individuals was deceased. He argued that it  
would prejudice the employer party if the condonation  
was granted.    
FINDING:
Using a holistic approach, all factors are taken into consideration.  Mr Mtshali's  
explanation as to why the referral was so late was vague and improbable and he  
could not produce any evidence as to the existence of these alleged consultants.  
The prospects on the facts appears slim.   It appears that Mr Mtshali resigned  
because his request could not be accommodated.   The inference is then that he  
resigned   because   the   situation   did   not   suit   him   anymore   and   was   therefore  
voluntary.   It appears that the prejudice to the respondent party outweighs the  
prejudice  to   the  employee  party   in  terms  of   the  fact  that   certain   witnesses  no  
longer   are   employed   at   the   Company   and   one   of   the   individuals   involved   is  
deceased.   To expect the employer party to recreate evidence  of an event that  
occurred a number of years ago, is to expect the impossible.

For the above reasons, coupled with the degree of lateness, which is excessive, I  
cannot   condone   the   late­referral   of   the   case   and   therefore   dismiss   the  
application."
I shall refer to this award as “the rescission award.”  
VIII. In   the   matter   presently   before   me   the  
employee seeks to review  the Commissioner’s refusal to  
condone the late­referral of the dispute. This was not  
how   the  relief   was  originally   formulated.  The   failure  
to formulate the relief sought correctly  is immaterial and has  
occasioned no prejudice.  The matter will be dealt with in terms of the notice of  
motion as amended.
IX. It   seems   that   the   principal   ground   of   review  
relied   upon   by   the   employee   is   that   the   question   of  
condonation   was   decided   in   his   favour   by   the  
Commissioner   in   the   original   award.     In   the   original  
award   the   Commissioner   dealt   with   condonation   on   the  
following basis:
"Condonation:   The dispute arose in December 1997 and  
was referred to the CCMA on the 10th of July 1998.  The  
matter is approximately seven months out of time.  The  
applicant stated that the reason he was out of time is  
that he approached a business in Soweto that pretended

to be the CCMA.  He stated that he was then sent to the  
bargaining council and the council then referred him to  
the   CCMA   who   informed   him   that   they   do   not   employ  
subconsultants.  I find that the applicant's reason for  
late­filing   is   acceptable   and   condonation   is   granted.  
The   Company   did   not   appear   at   arbitration   and   had  
therefore waived their rights."
X. As   already   indicated,   the   Commissioner   did   not   at  
that   stage,   have   the   benefit   of   argument   or   evidence  
from the Council.   However, she made it clear that it  
was   possible   that   the   Council   may   seek   rescission   of  
the original award.
I.
XI. The   first   issue   which   requires   consideration   is  
whether it was open to the Commissioner to reconsider  
the question of condonation when the matter came before  
her   for   purposes   of   rescission   or   whether   she   was  
"bound"   by   her   original   decision.     The   employee,   who  
appeared in person before me, placed this at the centre  
of his argument.  The essence of his contention is that  
once having found in his favour, the Commissioner was  
thereafter bound to find in his favour a second time. 
 
XII. Applications   for   the   rescission   of   arbitration

awards   are   governed   by   section   144   of   the   Act   which  
provides:
"Any Commissioner who has issued an arbitration award,  
acting   of   the   Commissioner's   own   accord   or,   on   the  
application of any affected party, may vary or rescind  
an arbitration award ­
(a) erroneously   sought   or   erroneously   made   in   the  
absence of any party affected by that award;
(b) in which there is an ambiguity or an obvious error  
or omission but only to the extent of that ambiguity,  
error or omission; or
(c) granted   as   a   result   of   a   mistake   common   to   the  
parties to the proceedings."
XIII. It   is   quite   clear   that   a   Commissioner   may  
reconsider an award   "erroneously sought or erroneously  
made   in   the   absence   of   any   party   affected   by   that  
award".    In   this   respect   the   CCMA   differs   from   many  
other   statutory   bodies   which,   in   the   absence   of   a  
specific   power   of   reconsideration,   are   not   ordinarily  
entitled   to   reopen   decisions   once   made.     There   is  
authority   for   the   proposition   that   once   a   statutory  
body   makes   a   decision,   it   thereafter   becomes   functus 
officio  (See,   for   example,   Minister   of   Agricultural  
Economics   &   Marketing   v   Virginia   Cheese   and   Food   Co.

(1941)   (Pty)   Ltd ,   1961   (4)   SA   415(T)   and   Durban   City  
Council v Local Road Transportation Board , 1964 (3) SA  
244(D).  However, the matter is not entirely free from  
doubt.     See   the   comments   of   Jansen,   JA   in   Transair 
(Pty)   Ltd   v   National   Transport   Commission   &   Another , 
1977 (3) SA 784(A) at 792A­793H).
XIV. Under   section   144   of   the   Act,   a   Commissioner   is  
given   the   express   power   to   vary   or   rescind   an   award  
already   given.     In   this   respect,   the   Commissioner  
enjoys powers the equivalent of those conferred on the  
High Court by Rule 42 of the Uniform Rules of the High  
Court.
XV. Where an award is wrongly made in the absence of  
an affected party, it is particularly appropriate that  
the matter be considered afresh with the full benefit  
of evidence and arguments not previously available. The  
audi   alteram   partem   rule   is   designed   to   facilitate  
informed decision making.  In the words of Milne JA in  
South African Roads Board v Johannesburg City Council , 
1991   (4)   SA   1(A)   at   13B­C,   the   rule   has   a   twofold  
effect:
"It   satisfies   the   individual’s   desire   to   be   heard  
before he is adversely   affected;   and it provides an

opportunity for the repository of the power to acquire  
information   which   may   be   pertinent   to   the   just   and  
proper exercise of the power."
XVI. In   this   regard   it   is   also   apposite   to   refer   to  
Administrator Tvl & Others v Zenzile & Others , 1991 (1)  
SA   21(A)   in   which   Hoexter   JA   at   37E   quoted   with  
approval the following observation by Megarry J in  John 
v Rees [1970] Ch 345 at 402:
I. "As everybody who has anything to do with the law  
well knows, the path of the law is strewn with examples  
of  open and  shut cases  which, somehow,  were not;   of  
unanswerable   charges   which,   in   the   event,   were  
completely answered;  of inexplicable conduct which was  
fully   explained;     of   fixed   and   unalterable  
determinations that, by discussion, suffered a change."
XVII. The   centrality   of   the   audi   alteram   partem  
rule is underscored by the fact that at common law the  
failure to afford a hearing in circumstances where one  
is required, renders the decision invalid (See  Momomiat 
v   Minister   of   Law   and   Order ,   1986   (2)   SA   264(T)   at  
274D;    Attorney General Eastern Cape v Blom , 1988 (4)  
SA   645(A)   at   669J   and   658H­I;     Administrator   Tvl   &  
Others v Zenzile & Others  (supra), at 28H ­I, 37C­F and

40A­B).
XVIII. I   am   accordingly   of   the   view   that   the  
Commissioner   was   not   only   entitled   to   consider   the  
question of condonation afresh, but was obliged to do  
so   in   the   light   of   the   evidence   and   argument   duly  
presented   to   her.     After   Revelas   J   had   rescinded   the  
order   granted   by   Grogan   AJ,   it   would   have   been  
competent for her to have directed that the matter be  
heard   by   a   new   Commissioner.     There   was   nothing   to  
suggest, however, that the matter should not be heard  
by   the  same   Commissioner.    I  am   not  unmindful   of  the  
obvious   frustration   which   this   has   engendered   in   the  
employee.  Indeed, given the turns and twists that this  
particular matter has taken, he may be forgiven for his  
obvious bewilderment at these processes. 
 
XIX. Having   regard   to   the   reasons   furnished   by   the  
Commissioner   in   the   rescission   award,   I   am   unable   to  
decern any misdirection or error on her part.  The test  
for review under section 145 of the Act is now settled  
by the decision of the Labour Appeal Court in  Carephone 
(Pty)   Ltd   v   Marcus   NO   &   Others   (1988)   19   ILJ   1425  
(LAC).     The   question   that   must   be   posed   is   whether  
there   is   "a   rational   objective   basis   justifying   the

connection   made   by   the   administrative   decision   maker  
between the material properly available to him and the  
conclusion he or she eventually arrived at"   (at 1435E­
F).     In   my   view   the   reasons   furnished   by   the  
Commissioner   satisfy   the   constitutional   standard   of  
justifiability.     It   is   quite   clear   that   the  
Commissioner   was   alive   to   the   factors   relevant   to  
condonation (see Melane v Santam Insurance Co. Ltd 1962  
(6)   SA   531   (A)).     It   is   equally   clear   that   these  
factors were appropriately weighed and considered.  The  
employee did not seriously attack the reasoning of the  
Commissioner.     His   principal   complaint   was   that   she  
changed   her   mind   when   the   matter   came   before   her   a  
second time.
XX. The enquiry for present purposes does not end with  
a   consideration   of   the   Commissioner's   reasons   for  
refusing   condonation.     This   is   so   because   in   the  
affidavit   filed   in   the   present   proceedings,   the  
employee seeks to adduce further reasons to explain his  
delay.     These   are   not   easy   to   fathom   but   in   essence  
amount to the following: He states that he approached  
George   Sithlabani   about   his   case.     He   states   further  
that   those   who   were   assisting   him   with   his   case  
approached   one   Shumi   Khotu   who   delayed   the   process.

Thereafter   one   Izak   Moweshe   also   delayed   the   process  
and, once again thereafter, one Anne van Tonder failed  
to take the process further. 
XXI. At the second hearing before the Commissioner, the  
employee   was   given   every   opportunity   to   explain   the  
reasons for his delay.   The Commissioner explained to  
the   employee   that   she   was   hearing   the   condonation  
application afresh and that it was therefore necessary  
for   him   once   again   to   give   his   reasons   for   the   late  
referral.  After the employee had furnished his reasons  
for   the   late   referral,   the   Commissioner   asked   him  
whether there was anything else he would like to add.  
The employee answered in the negative. 
XXII. Mr   Beckenstrater,   who   appeared   on   behalf   of  
the Council, rightly submits that no criticism can be  
directed at the Commissioner for failing to take into  
account factors not placed before her by the employee  
and   which   fall   within   his   exclusive   knowledge.     In  
Carephone   (Pty)   Ltd   v   Marcus   NO   &   Others   (supra)   the  
Labour Appeal Court was careful to stipulate that the  
enquiry into the justifiability of a decision required  
objective scrutiny of the material  "properly available"  
to   the   arbitrator.     The   new   evidence   sought   to   be

adduced   in   the   present   proceedings   was   not   properly  
available   to   the   Commissioner.     I   have   grave  
reservations about the competence of a court of review  
to   entertain   evidence   that   was   never   placed   before   a  
Commissioner   (cf   Loxton   v   Kenhardt   Liquor   Licensing  
Board 1942 AD 275 at 293).
  
XXIII. Even it were open to this court to consider  
evidence   not  placed   before  the   Commissioner,  it   would  
have to be accompanied by a satisfactory explanation as  
to why it was not tendered in the first place.   It is  
conceivable that a court of review, may have the power  
to   receive   fresh   evidence   by   reason   of   its   inherent  
powers   and  equitable   jurisdiction  (See   section  151   of  
the Act, as amended by section 11 of Act 127 of 1998).  
Were this possible, it would at least have to satisfy  
the   long   established   requirements   for   receiving   fresh  
evidence   on   appeal.     Wessels   CJ   in   Colman   v   Dunbar , 
1933 AD 141 laid down certain guidelines for receiving  
fresh evidence on appeal at 160­162:
I. "That this court can hear further evidence itself  
or remit the case to the court   a quo   to hear further  
evidence is beyond doubt;   but in the words of Innes,  
CJ in  Shein's­case, (1912 AD at p428), 'it is clear the  
court should be very chary of admitting fresh evidence

after a case has been tried more especially upon points  
which   have   been   contested   and   decided   at   the   trial.  
The   danger   of   sanctioning   such   a   course   save   under  
exceptional circumstances is manifest'.   To do so may  
often open the door to fraud and would offer a strong  
temptation   to   perjury   ....     We   ought   only   to   do   so  
'where special grounds exist and where it is clear that  
such   a   course   would   not   unfairly   prejudice   the   other  
side and would enable the court to do justice between  
the parties' (per Innes ACJ loc cit).  It is impossible  
to   lay   down   definite   rules   when   such   an   application  
will be allowed and when not, but we may adopt certain  
guiding principles upon which such applications may be  
granted.
1. It is essential that there should be finality to a  
trial and therefore if a suitor elects to stand by the  
evidence which he adduces, he should not be allowed to  
adduce   further   evidence   except   in   exceptional  
circumstances.     To   allow   fresh   evidence   on   a   point  
which   calls   in   question   evidence   already   lead,   would  
necessitate a rehearing of the witnesses whose evidence  
is   questioned   so   as   to   give   them   an   opportunity   of  
answering the fresh evidence.  This means that the case  
would   be   largely   reopened   which   militates   against  
finality ( Shein's case at p429).
2. The   party   who   makes   the   application   'must   show

that the fact that he had not brought it forward, was  
not owing to any remissness on his part (per Collins LJ  
in  Young v Kershaw  16 TLR 52,54).  He must satisfy the  
court  that he  could not  have got  this evidence  if he  
had used reasonable diligence.' ...
3. The evidence tendered must be weighty and material  
and presumably to be believed and must be such that if  
adduced, it would be practically conclusive for if not,  
it would still leave the issue in doubt and 
the matter would still lack finality.  It is not enough  
that the fresh evidence  merely   corroborates  
evidence which has been investigated and rejected.  It  
must go further.   In the words of Vaughan Williams, J  
in  Warham v Selfridge & Co  (30 TLR 344,345), 'in order  
to  justify the  granting of  a new  trial on  the ground  
that fresh evidence had been discovered, this evidence  
must be of such a character as to justify one in saying  
that the verdict could not, in the interest of justice,  
be relied on because it was based on mistake, surprise  
or fraud' ....
4. If the conditions have so changed that the fresh  
evidence will prejudice the opposite party, the court  
will not grant the application ( Shein's case (supra)).  
Thus, if the witnesses of the opposite party have been  
scattered   and   cannot   be   brought   back   to   refute   the  
fresh evidence or to explain their own evidence in the

light of the fresh evidence, the court will not grant  
the application."
XXIV. Even   if   it   were   open   to   me   to   consider   the  
fresh evidence, it would not meet the requirements of  
the   second,   third   and   fourth   guiding   principles  
mentioned   by   Wessels   CJ.   A   similar   approach   to   the  
receipt   of   fresh   evidence   is   adopted   in   English   law.  
(See   Ladd v Marshall   [1956] 3 All ER 265 (CA) at 768  
and  Stone v Stone  [1971] 2 All ER 582 (HL) at 586.)
XXV. I   am   accordingly   of   the   view   that   the  
Commissioner's reasons for refusing of condonation for  
the late­referral of the dispute are justifiable.
XXVI. I   should   emphasize   that   my   task   is   one   of  
review   and   not   appeal.   (See   Carephone   (Pty)   Ltd   v  
Marcus   NO   &   Others   (supra)   at   1434D).     Views   may  
legitimately   differ   over   the   acceptability   of   a  
particular period of delay.  That is beside the point.  
My task is to scrutinise the reasons furnished against  
the standard of justifiability.  That standard has been  
met in this case. 
XXVII. In   the   light   of   this   conclusion   it   is   not

necessary for me to consider the other issues raised by  
the   employee.     I   should   mention,   however,   that   the  
Commissioner   also   found   that   the   employee's   prospects  
of success were slim.   There was no real challenge to  
this finding by the employee.
XXVIII. In   the   circumstances   the   application   is  
dismissed.  Each party is to pay its own costs.
__________________
G.J. Marcus
Acting Judge of the Labour Court
Date of hearing: 3 June 1999
Date of judgment: 3 June 1999
For the Applicant:In person
For   the   Respondent:Mr   C   Beckenstrater   of   Moodie   and  
Robertson